Come to New Zealand, where "you can marry a fag but you can't smoke one"

[Alan]

Gabriel Sechan wrote:
> 
> 
> I might agree here.  You miss the point-  I should be able to walk into 
> a bar, and expect the air to be relatively clean in the first place.

You keep saying that, but you don't explain why.
I had ear trouble when I was a kid, left me with a case of tinnitus.
If I go into places with loud music - Bars with a band, most concerts, 
just about anyplace with a jukebox - I run the very real risk of losing 
the rest of my hearing, or at the very least having continous ringing 
for the rest of my life.
My solution to this is quite simple. I don't go to places that have an 
increased likelyhood of loud noise.
This means I have to leave my favorite coffeeshop before 8, since that's 
when the band starts. It means that most bars are off limits, since the 
decibel level gets too high.
I don't expect the bar to cater to my needs, and I would never support a 
law that, say, banned live music, even though it would make it possible 
for me to hang out with my friends at their favorite bar.

Now, admittedly, going to these places isn't going to kill me, but it is 
more of a direct link than second-hand smoke is to cancer.

> 
> You can go ahead and enjoy it in the privacy of your home/car.  What you 
> can't do is enjoy it where doing so will cause physical harm to others.

Again, the only harm is causes is to people who _choose_ to subject 
themselves to it. Avoid the smoke, avoid the harm, everyone is happy.


  Smoking is different-  its an
> action being done by other people that entirely precludes the use of 
> that establishment.  There's a world of difference there.

Yes, it does preclude the use of that establishment.
So does the bartender saying, "Hey, people with red shirts aren't 
allowed in here" or "Sorry, we only accept parties of 5 or more".
What about that annoying drunk guy that keeps playing _Freebird_ on the 
jukebox? heh.

There is no inherent right to usage or enjoyment of a restaurant, bar, 
or other quasi-private space.

On a somewhat related level, what's your opinion on "smoking clubs"?
How about membership-only smoking clubs?

-ajb