[Fwd: Iraq Dispatches: Inside Abu Hanifa mosque during attack

[boblq]

On Thursday 02 December 2004 05:09 am, Jaron Omega wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Gabriel Sechan wrote:
> > Once upon a time, I was a poor college student.  I went to campus town to
> > do some grocery shopping  Some bum (cause camputown crawled with bums)
> > asked me for 5 bucks.  Being a poor college student, I didn't have it-
> > but I did have groceries.  He wouldn't take them.
> >
> > This pretty much ended me giving direct money contributions.  He didn't
> > want money to pay for food, or he would have taken my food.  He wanted to
> > get drunk.  Well sorry- I'll give you money for clothes, I'll give you
> > money for food, I'll give you money for a bus pass or shelter or
> > something to help you get a job.  I won't give someone money so they can
> > get drunk or high and perpetuate their problem.  Since then I refuse to
> > give money to individuals- I only give to organizations or I buy items
> > like food and give to the individuals.
>
> I see your point, and can hardly argue against it.  I myself often feel the
> same.  Though, I still think giving to an organization, in the end, only
> serves to make the contributor feel good about himself.

The organization acts as an effective buffer between the donor and the 
often real ugliness of the donee. Giving this way as opposed to directly 
interacting and trying to relate (maybe help maybe not) the donee is 
a lot easier as a social exercise. Indeed it may be socially rewarding 
as the "networking" on the donor side of the buffer is often between
folks who are competent and even powerful. 

> Let's take a different story.  A few years ago, downtown, a bum approached
> me.  He didn't seem like he had lost his mind among all other assets, and
> well, I think he probably fell victim to life in general.  He bluntly asked
> for money for booze.  The honesty, compelled me to help the guy out.  I
> gave him twenty and watched him head straight for the liqour store.
>
> Now, let me ask you.  Do you think, there is anything he could have done
> with that twenty dollars to better himself moreso than a fifth?  A fifth
> is what he wanted, and in drinking it the alcohol will serve to make his
> condition more tolerable.  

Amen brother. 

> To put that man back on his feet would require 
> far more money I'm able to hand over.  An address to give his employeer,
> a form of transportation as many insist prospective employees have, new
> clothes for the interview.  A desire to still live in poverty with his
> crappy minimum wage job after years of unemployment.  A will to subject
> himself to the pains of dealing with typical bosses of such low paying
> positions.  The stress of having to pay bills, and not having enough
> income to do so.  Is it any wonder, many of the bums I've seen down-
> town run around with plenty of hair?

How many of you leading lives of quite desperation in the middle class 
would trade that existence for a minimum wage job? Again Omega is
here right on the mark. 

Hell I could not even put up with the best University or Corporate jobs
in the world ... Wage slaves one and all. 

> The purpose of handing a few dollars to a bum once in a while, isn't even
> so much as thinking you're making a difference.  Quite simply, it's a
> gesture of understanding becuase without the liqour to replace the plasma
> TVs, BMWs, La Jolla apartments, prestige jobs, what else is there? 
> Internal happiness?  Crazy talk, internal happiness would be unrealistic
> for me to expect from a real bum while staring at a nice UXGA LCD monitor.
> I will agree that happiness within is the foundation, but you have to
> remember if I left you with only the foundation of your house, you'd feel
> as if nothing was left.  And, rightly so.

Yep. 

> The drinking is a pleasure, and one of the few they have.  Just like your
> TV or whatever you fancy.  To start passing judgement on what you think is
> worthy of pleasure, well that's a different topic.  But, I will say that
> from where you stand and where the bum stands, an attempt to judge is
> very unfair.

Agreed. 

From where I stand most bums are more free than the typical 
corporate employee. I guess this is why I find them so easy to 
relate to and the typical corporate employee so ... uh "dead"? 

I guess I value freedom too much. 

> > There's also another benefit of organizations you miss-  bulk.  Its a lot
> > cheaper to build shelter for 50 or buy food for 100 than it is to do so
> > for one. 

I can personally build a shelter for one easily. I have done it many 
times. Building a shelter for 50 is a lot harder for me to do personally. 

> > If you give the money to a good, trustworthy organization 
> > you're probably doing more good than a direct payment.
>
> I don't give money in an effort to eliminate poverty.  Eliminating poverty,
> in a capitalistic society is impossible.  When I give money, I give money
> to help.

I give money toward the solution of very immediate problems. The
act is a lot like playing jazz, sometimes it works and sometimes it
does not, but at least there is a conversation going on. 

Damn! I find myself in almost total agreement with Omega on all 
of this. 

What is the world coming to? 

boblq "baffled" 

PS. For corporate employee read "employee of any large organization"